Relatively Terrible
Relatively Terrible is the Uploads of Fun family questioning today's culture with humor and just enough dysfunction to feel relatable.
Relatively Terrible
Stranger Things: The Final Verdict
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Ten years after we first met the kids from Hawkins, we finally reach the end—and the internet erupted. We open the vault on Stranger Things with our unfiltered rankings, a clear-eyed look at season five’s biggest swings, and a grounded explanation of what the finale actually did with the Mind Flayer, Vecna, and the show’s core logic. If you’re torn between awe and annoyance, this conversation gives you a map through the noise.
We revisit why season one still feels untouchable and why season four’s pace and precision set expectations the finale struggled to match. From “The Sorcerer” delivering the mid-season high point to the shorter final battle that followed, we unpack pacing, staging, and the choice to invest the last 55 minutes in character closure. Joyce’s decisive moment, Hopper and Eleven’s quiet grace, Steve and Dustin’s repaired bond—these beats show the series still knows how to land emotion even when dialogue turns uneven.
We also tackle the hot-button debates: so-called plot holes, Max’s graduation timeline, the absence of assorted monsters in the finale, and whether the Mind Flayer works as an ethereal hive intelligence rather than a single boss to punch. Add in editing realities, acting highs and lows, and a candid comparison to Breaking Bad’s airtight storytelling, and you get a full picture of why expectations shaped so much of the backlash. Love it or not, Stranger Things gave Netflix its first true global franchise and a generation-defining blend of horror, sci-fi, and heart.
Hit play if you want clarity without the rage-bait. Then tell us your season ranking and the one change you’d make to the finale. If this resonated, follow the show, share with a friend, and leave a quick review—your take might make the next episode.
Fighting The Suck Since ©2026 Relatively Terrible
Opening Banter And Season Rankings
SPEAKER_01Stranger Things is over after almost 10 years. Thank God. I'm just kidding. Probably one of the first shows. I don't care. I'm just gonna keep going.
SPEAKER_03I don't like it.
SPEAKER_01Probably one of the first shows that Netflix had that meant anything to Netflix. And we have to talk about it, what we thought about it, the internet's reaction, all that and more here on Relatively Terrible. I love you, but you're all terrible. I'm Josh.
SPEAKER_00I'm Rachel.
Stranger Things’ Place In Netflix History
SPEAKER_01I'm Calvin. I'm Jackson. And this is the Relatively Terrible podcast. Today we're talking stranger things. First of all, let's start with this. I want to start with this first. Starting with Jackson, I want you to rank the seasons in your order of best to worst.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Gotta start with season one, season four, season three, season two, season five. I'm gonna have to agree. That's your exact ranking?
SPEAKER_02I think because if you look past the one bad episode in season two, it is a really good season. I agree. But season five is just so inconsistent. Inconsistent.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Wow. They are definitely twins. Rach? Oh, that shut them up.
SPEAKER_00I think I would say one, five, four, three, two.
SPEAKER_01Wow. Hmm. Okay, one is always gonna be the best for me. Four, three, two, five. So you agree with our list or I think it was pretty close. Okay. I I couldn't remember, and I didn't just want to be lame like Calvin and say, same. So water. Why can't I do it too? Walter. Walter. Shut the f up. But 2016. I mean, this show came out. I was five. That's nuts.
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh, you were at five years old. I am 14. That is depressing. You, I honestly, I'm kind of shocked I was able to watch it at seven years old. No, you were shocked. No, you watched it at six because I was nine.
SPEAKER_04Oh babe. Six nine!
SPEAKER_01I knew no one here is wearing anything Stranger Things right now. Oh, I'm wearing Stranger Things underwear. Yeah, right. And your mom and I use Stranger Things condoms in three different sizes. So the smallest is Demor. Demo dog? Hold on. Wait, demo dog, demogorgon, Vecna. No. Vecna's the smallest size because it wasn't really that funny, but okay. That was pretty good. The smallest size is Vecna, because of one. Medium size is called the Harrington because he's probably doing okay. And then the largest size my bat one.
SPEAKER_04No. Derrick, yes.
SPEAKER_01No. What? It's Murray. The largest size is Murray. Come on. He looks like a penis. Like, look at his guy looks like a penis. So I'm just saying. Okay. 2016, Stranger Things came out. That can you guys think of a show before Stranger Things that Netflix had? Or a movie or anything?
SPEAKER_02I can't.
SPEAKER_01I mean there's nothing.
SPEAKER_00I remember when like it's it was like announced when uh Netflix was gonna start making their own shows, and everyone kind of went, Really? Really?
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_00Um so yeah, that just shows you like how really quickly like streaming services have evolved over the last 10 years.
SPEAKER_01And that first season was so great. I remember watching it, and I remember during the fourth episode, I pulled out my laptop and started designing a shirt for Hawkins High. And I think it was the first fan art that like hit anywhere, and I sold, I literally sold thousands of that shirt. Damn. Um, because it wasn't there was no IP infringement, all it said was Hawkins High. It had a generic tiger on it, and it looked like it was from the 80s, and people just lost their minds over it. So thank you, Stranger Things, for that. It was amazing. There was also subsequent shirts that you can get at uploadsofun.com. Just click on merch, check them out.
SPEAKER_02We're not sponsored.
Family Memories And Early Reactions
SPEAKER_01We're sponsored by Uploads of Fun, so go buy a dang shirt. There you go.
SPEAKER_02I just it's so crazy to think I was five when that came out.
SPEAKER_01And they watched it when you were seven and you were. No, I was six and you was nine.
SPEAKER_04Six nine, six nine.
SPEAKER_01Six nine. Very cool. But when you guys were watching that show, that is the first time that I saw both of them sob crying. They were weeping, weeping.
SPEAKER_02But if we watched it now, we would have different reactions. We were young. Barb. Barb. Just a bar. It was specifically when you when you saw her dead, like with the vines over and everything. When Will came back. You cried when Will came back? Yeah, we did. Remember in the hospital, we weeped. Remember? Yeah. We weeped at that too.
SPEAKER_01You didn't weeped, you wept. Wept.
SPEAKER_04Wept.
SPEAKER_01We wept at that too.
SPEAKER_04We weeped when he came ball. We can't bomb. He don't get no more.
SPEAKER_02Go ahead. Okay. Well, I'm telling you, if we watched it now, we would have different reactions.
SPEAKER_00You guys were little. Yeah. And yeah, I was.
SPEAKER_03I'm kind of with Calvin. I'm shocked you let us watch that at that young of an age.
SPEAKER_01Well, I fast forward it past the Steve and Nancy stuff. But yeah, then there wasn't anything that bad in it. No, not really.
SPEAKER_00Well, and you guys have always been a little more mature and able to handle probably some more intense content than other kids. I mean, let's face it, not many 14-year-olds are watching Breaking Bad. Or at least not with their parents' permission.
SPEAKER_01Calvin, listen, you are one of you are this type, you're the type of kid that your brother's older than you, and you kind of live up to his age. You don't, he doesn't live down to you. You live up to his age, so you are a little bit more mature and you're able to handle things. And I think that's how parents, what parents should look out for when they're letting their kids do certain things, like have a cell phone or watch certain shows. It should go by the kid. It shouldn't just be a random age. Life should have no template. That's it. Life should have no template. Walter. Okay.
SPEAKER_04I knew it. Walter.
SPEAKER_01No, I've been giving you Gandhi level quotes over here, and you're like, Walter.
SPEAKER_00Maybe don't let your 14-year-old watch a show that he's just gonna turn all of your movies.
SPEAKER_01Wata, what the I'm a YouTube button. But did you even remember it? Like uh watching it. Uh do you remember anything from watching it when you were that age, or no? Uh just the crying?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, just the crying, but it was unlike anything we had ever seen before. It was definitely very unique.
SPEAKER_01Plus, you guys have watched all the seasons since, and I think for me, one of the reasons season four is so special is because, and this is why I was a little bit perturbed at Calvin because he started to do his teenager I'm a dick now, kind of a thing. Why watching season four was special. We got you guys off of school. Ooh, that was a great thing. We took them out of school, we got a bunch of snacks, we went to Uncle Lou's and we like binged the whole thing. And Calvin, you said you loved it. That's why when you started saying, like, I'm just not a big fan of the show, I was like, No!
SPEAKER_04Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01Where did that come from? Where did that come from? I don't know.
SPEAKER_04Wow! He doesn't even have an answer for it!
SPEAKER_02I recently re-watched season four, and yeah, it's a great season. It's so much better than season five. So before we get to season five, that is just facts.
SPEAKER_01Listen. Listen, before we get to season five, let's so you don't have any reasoning for why you just kind of like backed off on it.
SPEAKER_03Because it was so good he needed a reason to have.
SPEAKER_01Did you just want to look cool in front of your friends? Hell no.
SPEAKER_03Stranger things sucks.
SPEAKER_04I got a big one.
SPEAKER_01Suck my father.
SPEAKER_04What the?
Spin‑Offs, The Play, And What’s Canon
Internet Backlash And “Plot Hole” Arguments
SPEAKER_01I don't understand it. Alright. Season five. We have to talk about it. There will be no more Stranger Things. Now there will be spin-offs. There's already a live action one in the works, the Duffer Brothers say, but it'll be a completely different people, different time period, different city. Um, and there's also uh Stranger Things Tales of 85, which will go from in between season two and season three. There'll be stuff that happened there. Season two and season three. Two, three, two, three. Kind of it's a cartoon, but I'm like, I don't know. It's a cartoon. Yeah. It's gonna have to be amazing for me to be like, yeah, that's good. Cartoons are extremely hit or miss. Yeah, I agree. But what I I think what I want to talk about first is the internet's reaction to season five. It's bad. I don't understand why we allow people to have access to computers, phones, and let them just. Let me just I'll start. I'm just gonna say it's not as good as all the other seasons. No, but there is I do not know, and I may never know what the Duffer brothers went through to have to create and land this plane of this epic show where every season, everyone loves it, except for one episode. I don't know what they had to go through. Also, I was thinking about it. Started in 2016. Netflix was completely different. Ten years later, how much control did Netflix have over this last season? It might have been too much. They did land the plane, they landed it well. I like that the last 55 minutes was wrapping up all these characters that I've spent nine years with. That was really cool. There were some things I would change about it, but I'm not a filmmaker, at least not yet. I don't, I'm not gonna go out there and try to say that there's like 50,000 plot holes because there wasn't one plot hole. Well, and people are using the word plot hole way too loosely because plot hole means if something happens, everything else after it doesn't make sense because of that thing. That's a plot hole.
SPEAKER_03And I don't believe Stranger Things has one. Are there things that could be better? Yes, but that doesn't make it a plot.
SPEAKER_00And it's not possible for a show like that that had so many different things going on. You didn't need to know what happened between Susie and and Dustin. Like you did that didn't need a wrap-up or something happened. They were kids and it was long distance. They were at camp together. I mean, that didn't need a resolution.
SPEAKER_01The only reason she even came back is because they were traveling from Vegas back to Indiana and it was on the way.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Well, and that was extremely smart, and that that one part at their house in season four is hilarious. Oh, love the whole thing.
SPEAKER_00But that's not a plot hole, but they didn't wrap, you know, wrap it up. There was nothing there to wrap up.
SPEAKER_01That was a st an alternate storyline. I heard someone explain it on the internet. That was an alternate storyline that was resolved. Or it just didn't go anywhere and it doesn't matter because it doesn't affect the rest of the season.
SPEAKER_00Exactly.
SPEAKER_03There were multiple of those. Well, and I really enjoyed that they brought back that douchey girl from season two that wouldn't dance with Dustin. Because now, because exactly what Nancy said in season two happened. Yep. The girls will wise up and they'll and they'll be crazy over you. There you go. That's exactly what happened. So that I actually enjoyed that. But the fact that they didn't go to the party just to play DD, that was pretty stupid. Let me tell you, in real life, that is not what would have happened. Uh just then. Why parties suck? But when, all right, let's just be for real. When a girl asks you to go to a party, you at least show up for 15 minutes, and if it sucks, you leave.
Graduation Timelines, Side Arcs, And Realism
SPEAKER_01Unless you just fought an intergalactic battle 18 months ago with your friends, and now you graduated high school, and your town of Hawaii is now healed. You might just go play DD.
SPEAKER_00Speaking of that, you saying the 18 months thing, you know, everyone pitching a fit over how did gr Max graduate. She had 18 months. She had 18 months. We know this is a really smart kid, and let's face it, we know how much time is wasted in school. You're telling me that girl could not catch up the time that she missed?
SPEAKER_03Well, and I think I would think the school policies at that time in Hawkins would be very lenient so I could get on board with Max.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I didn't grab that. That didn't bother me the way it's bothered a bunch of people on the internet either.
SPEAKER_01No, I I thought about this the other day when we were re-watching a part of season four. You could sit and pick apart any show you want, because Eddie picks up his guitar and I'm like, he didn't tune it. Yeah. Where's where he's got a little fender amp. Where's the big amp? Wait, where's Metallica? I hear Metallica playing, but they're not there. You could sit there and be an ass for an hour. We should do that. Yeah. We should just throw on a show that people love and just pick it apart because that is what happened when season five came out. Everyone felt like they had license to just all of a sudden crap all over it.
SPEAKER_03Well, because if you are determined to hate something, you will hate it no matter what.
SPEAKER_00Well, and I also think like let's let's think about this as well. The internet was flooded with everyone talking about this. So people, it's rage bait, it's people trying to like stand out and think that they had some unique perspective or insight. And also, you know, and I think we we can be guilty of this as well. It also can be very cool to shit on the popular thing. Um, and a lot of times, yeah, I think a lot of things that are popular are not good, but a lot of times things that are very popular are popular for a reason. Take Harry Potter. There has to be something there to capture the imagination of generations now of people. Like it can't be that terrible. Maybe it's not your cup of tea or whatever, but there's gotta be something there, right? And I think it's the same for Stranger Things. There's something there. Um, and again, and I think a lot of people, I think you mentioned this the other day. It seemed like a lot of the people online were just they watched the fifth season and they really didn't understand what the show was about, and that's why they didn't like the wrap-up of all the characters and everything. They were expecting, I don't know what they were expecting, some like something completely different.
What We’d Change In The Finale
SPEAKER_01Well, when you had the first half of the season was amazing, everyone loved it, no one was saying anything about it. Once you had the second part of the season and the the Will coming out episode, which everyone everyone hated and they thought it was poor timing, that's when that was the breaking point. So there was no way the finale was gonna get the love that it should have got. Because that last episode was a love letter to the fans. It was it was wrapping up all the characters. It was actually a very clever ending if you understood what happened, and not many people understand because not many people can use this anymore, and that's really sad. Jackson, Calvin, Rachel. Also, we should all go through and talk about one thing we would want to change, and maybe we can like try to understand why we would want to change that. What's one thing you would want to change about the fifth about the fifth season finale?
SPEAKER_03Fifth season finale. Okay, so you have this giant fight scene with this giant monster, Vecna's in it, all the kids are in it, and it ends so quickly, in my opinion. And I was thinking, oh, Vecna's laying there, he's almost dead, there's gotta be a twist, something's gonna happen. And Joyce just chops his head off, and that's it. And I'm thinking, oh, that's it. Really? That that's it? It needed to be longer, I think. Why because why? Because it's the final, like, big battle. I wanted it to be longer, not dragged out, but just longer than they made it.
SPEAKER_01Well you remember, but you gotta think about this. Sorry, real quick. You gotta think about the show as a whole, and that battle has been going on since day one. This is not, I know it was short in that moment, but it wasn't, it was a long, long battle. And the fact, the one thing I saw today I thought was really smart is she, everyone out outside wasn't hurting that thing. No one outside wasn't hurt. That was just a distraction. Eleven went inside and took on Vecna.
SPEAKER_00It was 11 and Will.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, 11 and Will. So I see what you're saying. Also, let's talk about the everyone saying there was no demogorgons, there was no this, there was no that. Think back to season three. When all those people had to form to make the mind flare that was inside the mall. That everyone's saying that's how that mind flare was formed. All the creatures on the planet had to come into it to make it that big.
SPEAKER_03And that's why there was no creatures. That's an interesting point. But one thing that was just kind of unclear throughout the whole thing is that the mind flare is the ultimate bad guy, right? Vecna's just a vessel, basically. Yeah. Where's the mind flare then? I know it's a hive mind and they're all connected, but I was expecting, like, oh, now the mind flare, I don't know, something like that.
SPEAKER_01But is the mind flare the ultimate evil? That whatever that spirit is, whatever that thing is, it's almost like an it. It's it manifests itself inside the clown, inside whatever you're scared of. That thing, it's ethereal. It's a spirit, it's from the abyss. It's not like the predator or anything. You know, like it's not like a Pigetty? I don't know. It's it's very hard to explain, but and I don't know. I don't think it's for me.
SPEAKER_00I didn't I don't need that explained.
SPEAKER_03Like, because I think that there's well, they're gonna have so many spin-offs and stuff, they're gonna get into that eventually. I think the play gets into what that is.
SPEAKER_01Really the play, the first one. I wish that would come here at Memphis. Well, they're gonna put it on a Netflix at some point. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, they're gonna put it on Netflix. So the Mind Flare wasn't that giant monster?
SPEAKER_01It is. Okay. But it's just like in season three when that thing came to the mall and it was all the people, the same thing had to happen for it to form again because the mind flare is a spirit. Yeah. So remember when Henry went to the upside down in season four and showed you what was going on and saw what in the thing from Will's drawing, and it was just a cloud, it didn't have a physical body. So once 11 went inside and attacked it, as long as she was successful, it was gonna be over. Yep. Because that was the heart. I don't know. I I wish it was a little longer, I guess, but the more I thought about it and the angrier I got from seeing everyone talk about the battle, I was like, man, they've been doing this for a long time. And I thought Joyce cutting off his head was definitely a fitting moment.
SPEAKER_03That what I I disagree with people online saying she wasn't the right one to take the final blow. What are you talking about? About I mean her from season one or season two, any of the times like she saw her son in that much like pain and all the stuff she had to go through.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
Mind Flayer, Vecna, And The Final Battle
SPEAKER_03What are you talking about? That I completely disagree with, but n aside from like the battle being longer, I get it. You needed I prefer the time going into the wrap-ups because that's more important. I wanted someone to die. Personally, I wanted someone to die. The true best characters, in my personal opinion, are the ones that die. That's why I like Mike from Breaking Bad so much. His death was Spoiler alert! Well, okay, the show's been out for a long time. Well, you killed me. Well, and especially how they die, because Mike's death was the most unexpected but most realistic death in all of Breaking Bad, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_01So I will challenge you with this question. Who would it be that the Duffer brothers wouldn't be hated for the rest of their lives? Well, I wanted Steve to die, but that's not gonna happen.
SPEAKER_03Right when he fell, I was like, oh.
SPEAKER_04I was like, oh, come on, no! Beautiful! That was such a beautiful school.
SPEAKER_03But if anyone were to save him, I'm glad it was Jonathan.
SPEAKER_01Beautiful! I I cried, I literally almost cried in the theater because there were so many girls in there crying.
SPEAKER_03I was like, this is all safe space. Well, I would have been okay with Eleven dying. Now I get it. Like they made it out to be it's whatever you think it is, but anytime there's a possibility that a character can still be alive, they're alive. They're alive. The collie died. Yeah, no one's gonna miss her. Yeah, no, no one likes her.
SPEAKER_00But listen, she's gonna miss her. One of the theories I saw, though, that I think might be real, is there was quite a time gap between her getting shot and bleeding the way that she was, and she was strong enough to still cast that spell of illusion and help. So one of the theories I saw is that actually her getting shot was an illusion as well.
SPEAKER_02I did see that, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Now, where I think that falls short is when Eleven gives her bracelet to Hopper before she goes to the abyss, her hands are bloody. So I I mean, I you know, that could have been from anything. Yeah, but I do think that was actually um an interesting theory that actually Callie wasn't shot, and that was their just their plan to make it look like it.
SPEAKER_01It could be. Um that's a great theory. I never thought of it that way. Jackson, you still haven't answered my question though.
SPEAKER_03Who who would you have? I said 11. Oh, I would have I would have enjoyed it if 11 had died. She I would have enjoyed it. Right when she went in there, I said, okay, you know what? That's good. I get it. You won't kill pretty boy Steve. You want to kill Eleven, that's fine.
SPEAKER_00Well, and at least it made sense because as much as no one liked Callie, she raised a really great point that had to be addressed. You take out Vecna, you take out the Mind Flare, you still have them out there with those, you know, 11 and Cali with those powers.
SPEAKER_05Yep.
SPEAKER_00And you still have the government. You still have the Russians, you still have they're going to be hunted their whole lives and experimented on.
SPEAKER_03Anytime there's people, that's what's going to happen. And you have to remember, aside from Vecna, the Mind Flare, all that, the one who started all this was Brenner.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So it's his fault for everything that happened. It was never, it was it was it was a man. It was a human.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because a man is always gonna seek after power. And when Brenner seen whatever was in that rock or whatever they were trying to do and knew it could be replicated or harnessed. Um, Calvin, what about you?
SPEAKER_05Hmm.
SPEAKER_01What would you change? Or what would you add or what would you do?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, probably like I wanted some the big battle to be a little bit longer, but the points all made make sense. Uh yeah, and probably the whole coming out scene, not needed. No, we all knew. So unnecessary, but like you said, it's like, did the duffers actually have control over that scene? Was it Netflix that made them do that?
SPEAKER_03So Well in the act take aside the subject matter, the acting, that scene in general was just hard to watch. And I don't like girls.
SPEAKER_01Well, they put they put out there, and I don't know why they did this, because this did not make me think anything better of the scene. They they were like, you know, it took 12 hours to film, and then it took 12 hours of reshoots. Oh that should tell you that.
SPEAKER_00There's something wrong with the scene.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, something wrong with the writing, something wrong with the actors not vibing with that material, and you're trying to create something that is just so cringe. And you know, the truth is if someone came out in the 80s, this is not how it would have gone down at all. That scene was. That was a 2020s coming out scene.
Acting, Editing Choices, And Season Five Tone
SPEAKER_03Yes. Uh the setting, the acting, everything about that scene was just wrong. And you have to remember, in that context, they were all getting ready for a battle. Right. And it would have been better if they had shortened it up. And if it was just like Will and Mike or Will and his mom, something short and sweet and simple. Calvin, who would you who would you have taken out if you were the Duffer brothers?
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah, 11. Like 11? Because when they showed her at that, I'm like, bruh. Really? Like, just finish her off. That's a little bit more. A little bit of a little bit more.
SPEAKER_01Do you have any any changes that you would make? Uh anything that we haven't talked about yet?
SPEAKER_00So I think the only thing I wanted um to have, I did not have really much of an emotional reaction when 11 pulled Mike into the void. And I I want, I don't know, like that just didn't tug at my heartstrings at the way I I wanted it to.
SPEAKER_01I agree with you.
SPEAKER_00There are other conversations and other things that happen that, you know, those conversations like between Hopper and L and stuff that were more emotional. And I just wanted, I don't know. And it wasn't like it was the acting necessarily, it was just sort of the dialogue fell flat a little bit for me.
SPEAKER_01It was it was Finn Wolfard's acting.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yes. You see, that's why I I truly believe season one is the best for one key component. They were better actors as kids for sure. But I believe that.
SPEAKER_01Hold on, but go back and watch season four, the piggyback episode, and watch Mike's acting there. Yeah, it's much better. But then Will's acting is worse in season four. Because he didn't have enough dialogue in season four. He had more dialogue in five, and he had more time to get his chops together and his and his acting ability. I think just got better.
SPEAKER_00The other thing you have to think about Will, like I agree, but I also think leading up to season five, you really are supposed to perceive him as weak and like he's not okay. You know, I mean, I think they nailed that really well with yes, he was still um possessed for lack of a better term, but even if that wasn't the case, that kid's gonna be in therapy the rest of his life. He's damaged. I mean, he's this this is bad. Um, so I think that's what made his transformation in season five so good was it was like, okay, he's finally got it.
SPEAKER_01Is there anyone that you would have taken out and you'd been okay with?
SPEAKER_00I kind of agree that I think logically, 11. I'm okay with the fact that she's probably still alive, but they had to do something. They had to do something with 11. They had to, they had to somehow stop the cycle, like Callie said. And I really think they had to do that. Um, I was worried they were gonna kill Steve. I was also worried they were gonna kill Hopper, which that would have wrecked me because of everything Hopper went through in season four. Like if you were gonna take out Hopper, if that man could survive fighting demogorgons and a gulag, a Russian gulag, yeah. He he needed to make it all the way through. So I'm really glad they didn't kill him.
Episode Four “The Sorcerer” Praise
SPEAKER_03Well, and I'm glad they had him and Joyce finally marry in the end. W raise. That was good. Well, and the fact that they were gonna go away, yeah, start a new life, that's it. Get out of Hawkins.
SPEAKER_01I think I agree with everything that you guys are saying that you know that you would change about the season. I just wish it was filmed and written more like season four or season one, maybe even stripped down further. I was always worried about when after watching season one and all the hype and how great it was, I was worried season two would not be as good. And it wasn't because they had money, and money ruins things a lot of times. Now they brought it back in with season three, it got it got better in season four. Season five just felt a little generic. A lot of the dialogue felt generic, especially Robin. She got really annoying. Um, I know they wanted her to quip all the time, but in season four, she only quipped and talked when she needed to, and it was perfect. And the acting in season five was not as good. And I heard that they filmed over 680 hours of footage, and I feel like that's a problem. Because how is anyone supposed to have the man hours to edit that and make sure they're using the right takes? Oh god. So I just wonder if certain things were left on the cutting room floor that shouldn't be. Now we're gonna find out they're do they're putting out a documentary soon on the making of season five. So they were also doing that. So I feel like that's another thing. When you got that documentary going in the background, did that hurt the season? Do you know what I'm saying? Did they did this not did the filming of this get treated more like we're gonna document all this, we're gonna put the season out, and it's gonna be fine? It just felt different, it felt generic. And I hope that's I hope it's because of Netflix, because I don't think the Duffer brothers would allow it to happen. They made the show so perfect, they took so long to make each of these seasons.
SPEAKER_00Oh well, can we can we talk though about episode four of season five?
SPEAKER_01The sorcerer?
SPEAKER_00I mean, that was, in my opinion, the best episode. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Season five, easily, yes.
SPEAKER_00And I think that's why, I think that's why the battle, the final battle and the finale felt I think it was good, but I think it fell a little bit short of the battle in episode four, in terms of how epic that was. And you wanted that final one to live up to that because I mean, I to me, episode four, and when Will finally channels in and that conversation he has with Vecn, and that was so good. I was so pumped after that episode.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yes, and um I was prepared in my mind, I think I told you, to download all the episodes. And what I was gonna do is at the end of the sorcerer, you could cut to Joyce cutting off Vecna's head. I'm just I'm talking about cut out the second half of the season, just cut right to Joyce cutting off Vecna's head, and then cut to the the last 55 minutes of the season finale, and I would have been fine. Also, if the finale would have sucked, Stranger Things for me would have ended at that episode you're talking about, the sorcerer. But I I and Will getting powers fade to black, Stranger Things is over.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Cool. I would have been fine with that.
Relationships, Resolutions, And Dustin’s Grief
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, I think though, I also need, and I can't remember which episode it is, but I I I needed Steve and Dustin. I needed their relationship to resolve. You I again something that I thought was really realistic was how angry Dustin was. Sure. And how messed up he was after losing Eddie, and you understand why he's behaving the way that he is, and you understand why he and Steve have so much tension. And I was I did like how they resolved that in that scene in the building with the fall the ladder falling through the floor.
SPEAKER_05Yep.
SPEAKER_00Um, and then you know, they obviously showed that their relationship continued, but I needed that too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think the sorcerer was really great, and and uh you're right about the battle because I thought about that a couple times that.
SPEAKER_00It looked like a video game, like the way it was filmed, the action, the kids with the you know, it was just it was so good.
SPEAKER_01The one thing I did like about the finale battle was I liked the look of the monster. Oh man.
SPEAKER_02Speaking of that, everyone is saying the mind flavor got downgraded when it looked like that. No, no, no. I have seen all over my feed, like, oh, it's not as scary looking. It got downgraded. And I'm just like, what are you talking about? You'd rather just have like a shadow figure than this cool, like you're stupid.
SPEAKER_01It was unique. We never knew the actual uh shape of the mind.
SPEAKER_03Well, there really isn't one because it's just one shadow, and shadows change their form. That the that people need to shut up on that. And the CGI on that monster was looked amazing. It looked absolutely incredible inside and out.
CGI Debates And Rage‑Bait Culture
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and they got the perspective, I think, and the sizing right on 11 when she was going up to it. Like sometimes CG like that can be hit or miss because it's you're kind of guessing. That was really good. I don't agree with all the people comparing it to the old Lincoln Park video saying it's that bad of CG. And I'm like, see, once people though find this way to rage bait and they know they can get views, they it doesn't matter. They'll say anything, they'll say anything, but they won't say it to your face, they really wouldn't. No, and and you know what? If somebody that that's the thing about art and and Stranger Things is art, it's subjective. It's okay to not like it, but no one not everyone needs your opinion about it, especially like most of these things that came out were dead wrong. And the ones that I disagreed with that I that I was okay with how they were saying it, you could tell they were fans. I would listen to their perspective and be like, I can see where you're coming from. In my mind, I'd be like, but you're still wrong. But I I totally, I, I totally get it. They landed the plane, they did it well, and it left a lot open to interpretation. And some people don't like that, and I'm I'm okay with that.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, I'm okay with that.
SPEAKER_01I'm okay being able to sit there and and think about it and work through it in my own mind. So, any any final thoughts on Stranger Things season five or or the show in general, any any other thoughts?
SPEAKER_03I think that last point you made is why Stranger Things isn't my favorite show of all time. I like it when, kind of like Harry Potter and Breaking Bad, it's a story that has a start, middle, end, and that's it. Breaking Bad has that, and Harry Potter has that. Stranger Things doesn't really have that because they're gonna be spin-offs, there's gonna be everything. It's almost like The Walking Dead. Is there really gonna be an ending to it?
SPEAKER_01Well, Stranger Things, that it's over. No, there's there's a beginning, middle, end. Okay, it's over.
SPEAKER_03But they're gonna be spin-offs, so isn't that gonna be like part of the universe or something?
SPEAKER_01Like But I think if you ask the duffers, they would be like, that's Stranger Things. Everything else is just ancillary, it's not it's not important, it's not canon.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_01It's not canon. I mean, it's oh and the reason it's not my favorite show, because Breaking Bad is, they're but they're just very different, but also The acting and breaking bad make stranger things oh my gosh.
Endings, Spin‑Offs, And Breaking Bad Comparisons
SPEAKER_03Different, different different show, but the actors and the casting in Breaking Bad just make Stranger Things look kind of shitty. I'm sorry, but Walter White, I mean, Brian Cranston has better acting than anyone else in Stranger Things. That's just a fact. But it's also the character he's playing. I mean, come on. But also, like, you know, like we just said, Will in season four, not so great, will in season five was better. I don't I don't really like that. That's what makes Breaking Bad so good. Like it's consistent, their acting is consistent, the story is consistent, and when it ends, you're just like, oh my gosh, that's the best ending ever.
SPEAKER_01I know I mean for me, Stranger Things though wasn't it was a a very consistent show until that second half of season five. And if that would have like held up, like after the sorcerer or everything after the sorcerer, if that would have stayed and just kept going up, it might beat Breaking Bad for me. But nothing will ever beat for me this the first season of Stranger Things, like incredible, just the most unique thing I had watched in a long time. It was perfect, and it was everything you you wanted it to be.
SPEAKER_03Well, and one thing that I enjoyed Breaking Bad over Stranger Things is the main bad guy. Walter White to me is scarier than Vector. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, there's something to be said for it it's it's sort of, you know, it's that idea of like when you're dealing with like a fantasy series or sci-fi or whatever, you can kind of disassociate from those shows a little bit more because it's like this isn't real. You know what I mean? This is not a real thing. Whereas Walter White could be anybody. And it's and it's and that makes it scarier because that could happen. Whereas you watch Stranger Things, and I did think it was interesting that they made the upside down an actual wormhole and that it wasn't magic. I I I actually liked that. But at the end of the day, you watch Stranger Things, you're like, I'm not worried about this actually happening. Walter White actually being your neighbor, dude, that could happen. That could happen.
SPEAKER_03I completely agree. I've never found, you know, monsters or anything that scary, but a man who is filled with that much pride that he's willing to kill and do anything to get what he wants, that is scary. Yeah. I mean, I think stranger things, I don't really count stranger things. We were young, okay? That doesn't count when it comes to crying.
SPEAKER_02We were young, we were not conscious.
SPEAKER_03Oh my gosh, Calvin. That's not what conscious means. Okay, listen. But no, it counts. But with Breaking Bad being the only show Calvin has ever cried to, that says something.
SPEAKER_00Or had a physical reaction says something to me.
SPEAKER_03Because that episode uh that is the best episode television ever.
SPEAKER_01Ozzie Mandius. Oh my gosh. So good. No, I agree. Oh man. I don't think anything will ever beat Breaking Bad or Better Call Saul. I mean, for uh Vince Gilligan to have two shows in a row that were that good. Uh we'll see what happens with Pluribus. Jury's still out. It's actually good. It's got it's got me at my interest peak, but it needs to go somewhere. You wouldn't like it. I can sell it's super slow. Calvin is. It is super slow. Super slow. Uh any other final thoughts from from Calvo?
SPEAKER_02I wish I wish Walter showed up in the end.
SPEAKER_03Oh my gosh. Wait, we didn't say the highlight of season five, though. Derek. Oh, yeah, Derek. Oh my gosh. I love well, and I also love his character development. I know he went from being. Derek did not have any character development. He went.
SPEAKER_00He went from being dipshit, Derek, to be delightful, Derek. I mean, he did he did have character development, though, because he went from, I mean, when he really
SPEAKER_03Tell Mr. Rogers to suck my fat one. Well, on that one scene, I keep seeing it everywhere. No, theater reactions of people with when Derek, you know, flips back off and says, suck my fat.
Parents In Hawkins And Character Arcs
SPEAKER_00Everyone's like, oh my God. You know who else who else is? I agree. I think Derek was a great character, and I was finally happy to see Karen Effing Wheeler finally do some effing parenting. For real. That woman. Her and and Ted Bose through every season are the most oblivious, I mean, just stereotypical AIDS parents who have no clue what is going on.
SPEAKER_02I mean, Mike in season one was able to keep her in the king of her house. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_03In that same season, Ted's like, if our son was keeping a girl in the house, we would know about it.
SPEAKER_00And it's like, no, these people know nothing.
SPEAKER_01Joyce explained it perfectly, though, when she talked about how out of touch she was.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, she would work an eight-hour shift, she would come home, she'd turn on TV, and she would drink until she fell asleep. Yeah. She doesn't even know where either of her kids are. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Karen Wheeler was home all day and didn't know where her kids were or what they were up to for years. For years.
SPEAKER_01You can't blame her. You just bought the wine.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. But I did, you know, when she finally realized what was going on, and then and then to see those scars on her at the end was pretty wicked.
SPEAKER_01Well, I just want to say thank you to the Duffer brothers. I know you'll never see this, but wow, you guys are like those guys, this makes me really depressed, but I'm gonna say it anyways. Those guys are my age now. Like, so think about when they started it. That's kudos to them. That's pretty awesome for that. That being, because like if you go back and look at their IMDB, they did a couple of things, but this was just like well, no kidding. Going back to, I don't understand the type of pressure that those dudes were under. And it's just like I think of I will compare Lincoln Park here. Lincoln Park, when they came out with hybrid theory, probably one of the greatest albums of all time, and then they had to come out with another album.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, how do you follow that up?
SPEAKER_01How do you follow that? Because the Duffer brothers were working on Stranger Things for years and years and years and years and years and years and years, and then they made it, and then they had to finish it. They didn't have the same amount of time that they did while they were making the other stuff, and it's just I just I just don't think, and I also think it came through in the acting. I think a lot of the actors were probably really obviously sad, torn apart. This is 10 years of their life. Well, they grew up on this. Yeah, even if they're ready to move on, there's it's still gonna be tough. And I think I think a lot of times it doesn't come through as emotion on screen, it can come through as like you're phoning it in because if you let your emotions take over, you're not gonna be able to do what you need to do for the scene.
SPEAKER_03Mark my words. Caleb McLaughlin and Sadie Sink are gonna be the only ones who really go on to have like a really good acting career.
SPEAKER_01You could be right. Sadie carried the season. Absolutely. Especially her when she came back. She can act. When she oh man, Caleb, she can act.
SPEAKER_03Everyone else is hit or miss. Even Millie Bobby Brown was not that great. Man, she just had the giga chat face the entire time.
SPEAKER_04She did, you know what? She kind of did have that face. I'm not gonna lie, she did.
Pressure On The Duffers And Cast Futures
SPEAKER_01Because she might have been trying to hold her emotions in, and it's all she can do. Because if you listen to any videos about her acting, because there's a the kid who played number two in season four, he has a YouTube channel where he talks about his acting career, and a lot of his advice came from Millie Bobby Brown. So she's not a bad actress. I think she I think she's over-emotional, and I think sometimes that comes across as cringe, or in this situation where it is an act. Very restrained. Yeah, because she has to be. And that was relatively terrible. We'll see you on the next episode. Listen, if you have any questions or anything, go to uploadsofun.com, send us a message, or you can hit us up on our social channels at relatively terrible everywhere, like YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok. Go support our GoFundMe.
SPEAKER_03Millions of kids are dying.
SPEAKER_01That joke is old. We don't have a GoFundMe.
SPEAKER_02We have to start cooking.